Thursday, May 22, 2008

AUDIO: Todd Bentley says it's NOT about Jesus?

UPDATE: Many have made the statement that "Todd didn't say "It's not about Jesus". This blog has never said that we are QUOTING Todd Bentley. There is a "?" at the end of the blog title. We know that he did not say the words "It's not about Jesus". However, we maintain that what he did say WAS that God told him to lay aside teaching on Jesus (for how long, Todd?) to bring the "angel" into Jesus' limelight.

So because the church supposedly doesn't believe in the "angel" of Todd, or in the "supernatural", God himself told Todd Bentley, in effect, 'Lay Jesus aside! Don't preach Jesus right now... preach about the angel and the supernatural because that's what the church needs.'

Do you not see the blasphemous heresy in that? And it can only mean that at this time "it's NOT about Jesus... its about the supernatural." So our title remains an accurate description of what Mr. Bentley said.

THE ORIGINAL POST FOLLOWS UNCHANGED:

____________________________________________________

Well, I'm beginning to think that revivalist Todd Bentley may not really be hearing from God! In this audio clip I think he says that God told him not to worry about preaching Jesus but instead said "Todd, you've got to get people to believe in the angel" named Winds of Change, that visited Todd at the beginning of this revival!

I'll say it again... God told Todd Bentley that we need to know about his angel more than Jesus Christ...

Just soak up that "word from the Lord" prayerfully for a minute and listen to this short 2-minute clip: TEXT FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED IS BELOW...









Okay. So, Todd, I hear what you're saying... if I don't believe your "story"...
[+-] Expand/Collapse Post


...without verification from the word of God, then "Sorry"? So I'm out of luck if I want to be a Berean and check you out? I'm out of luck if I want to be "rightly dividing the word of truth."!

I guess I should shun my Bible when it tells me to "shun profane and idle babblings, (like yours) for they will increase to more ungodliness. (2Tim 2:16)
And I should ignore 2 Timothy 2:17 when it tells me that your unbiblical message will spread like cancer like Hymenaeus' and Philetus'. Why do you want me to "stray concerning the truth"(2Tim 2:18)of the Word of God and simply put my faith your unbiblical story?

Also, what about:

1Corinthians 1:22-25 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, CHRIST THE POWER of God AND THE WISDOM of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1Corinthians 2:2-5 - For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in (CHRIST) THE POWER of God.

and what about:

Matthew 12:39-40 - But (JESUS) answered and said to (THE PHARISEES), "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Todd, Jesus Christ is ALL we want from you and you are not preaching Him alone! He is ALL we need, and He is ALL you should be preaching!

I don't need or want anything "new"! I have the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is all the power I need!

And I don't need any "angel" to bring "winds of change" which are actually "every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting" which only "toss people about" from Sheveport to Kansas City to Toronto to Pensacola to Lakeland and everywhere in between without ever showing ANY FRUIT of REAL power, signs, wonders, or miracles!

Todd,... When "miracles" at this revival become more than people falling backwards and mothers having to go away "having faith" that their child has received his healing from his cancer having no proof that they are healed by Todd Bentley's annointing... (Jesus gave us immediate proof and total healing!)

When "signs" become more than airplane jetstreams falling into the shape of a cross in the sky and having thirteen 13 year olds on stage on the 13th day of the month ...

When "wonders" become more than pigeon angel feathers falling from the rafters, or glittery dandruff gold on your sports coat...

When "power" becomes more than Todd Bentley screaming "Bam! Boomba! Bam! Sheekaaaah! or even adding "...in the NAME of JESUUUUUUUsssssss"...

...but when Jesus Christ becomes the focal point and subject of every message (rather than the magic catchphrase) and the Holy Spirit does what the bible says He will do causing people to see their SIN as their problem and not their PROBLEMS as their problem...

THEN come and tell me about a "great revival".

Until then I will fight it and call it false, blasphemous, and heretical and will have the Word of God to back me up. So BAM!

TEXT OF THE ABOVE AUDIO:
This thing's gonna break out. Now, now, just wait up here... and Shrevesport (sic)... I'm releasing it back to where it all started in 1948. I'm releasing it back.

Now for some of you that are here, it doesn't really matter to you ... all that stuff. All you care about is ... God's moving. And you know what, that's all that really matters. So if you're not big on prophetic, supernatural, and angels, I'm sorry. It's my testimony. But if you want to know why God's moving, I have to tell you the whole story. And if you don't believe the story, well......sorry.

You know, I told the Lord, "why can't I just move in healing and forget talking about all that -other stuff?" He said, "Because, Todd you've got to get the people to believe in the angel." I said, "God, why do I want people to believe in the angel? Isn't it about getting the people to believe in Jesus?" He said, "The people already believe in Jesus, but the Church doesn't believe in the supernatural."

The Church has no problem believing in Jesus, what we don't believe in is the supernatural. We don't believe in angels. We don't believe in the prophetic. We don't believe in some of what's going on. And I'll tell you what, we need to have an awakening.

I said, "Well, God, maybe you want to give this ministry to somebody else, because nobody's going to receive it in the package that I come in." I said, "You gotta give me the most controversial testimony? You gotta visit me with all this supernatural stuff? I mean, hey, maybe if I was a little more clean-shaven and polished, people would believe me more." Or maybe, the world is looking for something new... How many of you believe we need something new?


HERE is the source video.
The first three minutes tells you about Todd & William Branham's shared "angel" named "Winds of Change" and the last two minutes are what you heard above.

CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO TODD'S 2 MINUTE STORY ABOUT THE STINKY "RELEASE" OF A "SPIRIT OF INFIRMITY"

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31 comments:

baxter said...

Bam Todd take that!

Anonymous said...

I didn't hear him say that it's not about Jesus. He said...

-----------------------------
I said, "God, why do I want people to believe in the angel? Isn't it about getting the people to believe in Jesus?" He said, "The people already believe in Jesus, but the Church doesn't believe in the supernatural."
---------------------------
The thing is, he is talking about the Church. The Church already does in fact believe in Jesus. I think a large part of the Church does not believe in the supernatural. This doesn't mean that Jesus is irrelevant. What it means is that people need to believe in Jesus and also believe in what Jesus can do through the Holy Spirit in and through us.
How many in the Church TRULY believe Philippians 4:13? That's what I thought he was addressing there.

We need to be careful not to twist his words. There are plenty of things to talk about concerning this revival without having to pretend Bentley said something that he didn't say.

KDS said...

I have heard him say that this revival is all about Jesus.

Granted, not very often, but He has said it at times. So if GOD Himself said they need to believe in the angel, then why doesn't he come out and say it nightly. If that is what the revival's agenda is, then He should feel comfortable with repeating it often.

True, he never said "It's not about Jesus" What he said was that He asked God, "Isn't it about getting the people to believe in Jesus" and God said, "The people already believe in Jesus,but the church doesn't believe in the supernatural."

Then he goes on to say, the church has no problem believing in Jesus, but we don't believe in angels, the prophetic, and some of what's going on.

What church believes that when the bible says an angel appeared, that that must be a lie?

What church believes that when God said unto the prophets, "prophesy to the people", that that must not have been God speaking.

We Sir(Todd B.), believe in the infallible Word of the Living God.

If He said it, WE (the body of Christ) believe it.

What I cannot believe is that The God of the scriptures would tell you to (in essense) put aside Jesus,The WAY The TRUTH and The LIFE, in order that we should believe in the angel.

God knows that we(the body of Christ) believe His every word.

Those who don't, are those headed for destruction, and we are commanded to pull them from the flames by preaching JESUS to a dying world.

JESUS is all they need to hear!

The God of the Bible would not put His only beggoten Son to the side, while making sure we believe in(trust)the angel.

My trust and hope is in Christ alone. And He is who I will declare to the nations.

In Christ,
KDS

Anonymous said...

To be fair, what he meant was...

It isn't about saving anyone or getting Christians to repent and turn their heart to God. It's about summoning angels and seeing stuff.

Hesed said...

Todd said God told him that the church believes in Jesus.

Lie number one. No need to count further.

Todd is a liar, and is listening to other spirits.

If the church believed in Jesus, the world would be evangelized.

Jon@TheWay said...

Mr./Ms. Anonymous,

I wish that you had put your name on your post above. I would love to tell you personally how you made my day and made me laugh out loud! If you are ever in the area, put a bag on your head and call me and we can have lunch while you maintain your anonymity

Jon Sharp

TMRFiles said...

When one knows God personally and intimately, there is no need to go looking for signs, trances, angels, dreams, and visions and all of the "extrabiblical"/anti-biblical manifestations as Bentley promotes in his writings, teachings and "revivals"; as God makes His will clear to those who have a relationship with Him, and not in the confused state of signs. When we look at our own lives and how we walk with Him and realize that in our lives, "Jesus is Lord," there is no need for all of this "extrabiblical"/anti-biblical signs and wonders, angel visitation, mystic visitations, and "thirteen wise virgins to carry a revival forward." None of this is from God's Word.

According to the Gospel of John 3:3-5, Christians are to live under the influence of the Holy Spirit and being born again of the Spirit and having the Spirit dwell in us IS an absolute requirement to having the Holy Spirit control our lives . Paul writes that Christians are also commanded to "walk in the spirit"in Galatians 5:16. The only possible way for any true Christian to live under the influence of and walk in the Spirit is by reading God's Word, the Holy Scriptures. If you have been following Bentley's "revival", as I have in the videos, there is no preaching of the Word and Bibles are not a part of this "revival". Jesus said in John 17:17:
"Sanctify them through thy truth: THY WORD IS TRUTH."

Jesus is telling us that the Word of God is Truth. Non-believers teach that there is no absolute truth, but that we each "create our own reality". But the Bible teaches that there is an absolute standard of Truth, and that is God's Word. This one conspicuous aspect of the absence of God's Word at this counterfeit revival alone is a dead give away. Paul tells us in Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is not of his."

Toni

Jon@TheWay said...

In some of the other blogs out there is some discussion on us being careful not to misquote Todd Bentley.

One comment I read is that this blog quoted Todd incorrectly... however, I did not actually quote Todd Bentley.

The title of my blog is: Audio: Todd Bentley says it's NOT about Jesus?

I raised a question in the title about Mr. Bentley's own words and gave my interpretation.

Then body of the blog says:

In this audio clip I THINK he says that God told him not to worry about preaching Jesus but instead said "Todd, you've got to get people to believe in the angel" named Winds of Change, that visited Todd at the beginning of this revival!
I'll say it again... God told Todd Bentley that we need to know about his angel more than Jesus Christ...

The last sentence is a comment on what I believe Todd is saying. But I put quotation marks around his actual words from the clip.

He doesn't speak of the angel's name in this part of the clip but he named her/him "Winds of Change" earlier in this same sermon.

If you will notice at the end of the clip He says that...PARAPHRASING HERE... we need "something new" after talking about being advised by God Himself that we need to believe in the angel instead of focusing on Jesus, since we already know Him.

So it appears he is saying that we Christians all "believe in Jesus", but what we really need now (and what God Himself told Todd to "make us believe" is the angel" because we need something NEW. I don't really see any positive biblical way to take that as a direct word from God OR make it biblical.

Our humble apologies if anyone thinks we were quoting Todd Bentley as saying "It's not about Jesus", but we do feel that it IS an accurate summary and interpretation of the words Mr. Bentley said in the clip.

God bless you in your search of His Truth.

Jon@TheWay said...

HERE is the source video.

http://www.ustream.tv/flash/video/355021

The first three minutes tells you about Todd & William Branham's shared "angel" named "Winds of Change" and the last two minutes are what you heard above.

Tired-of-the-Pharisees said...

This kind of Christian bashing Christian stuff makes me puke and I'm pretty sure it makes Jesus puke as well. So Todd Bentley thinks there needs to be more supernatural in the church. Big deal. You want more word - well guess what? The word speaks about the Holy Spirit and the gifts and angels.

Jesus was never impressed with the Pharisees even they though they had all the answers, he was more impressed with the faith of those around him.

You want just Jesus, well then go around and start acting like it. You probably deceive yourself into thinking that you have the "ministry" of making sure the church is on the straight and narrow. Take a look at the unpardonable sin passage before you get so quick to judge.

If Christians spent as much time TRULY loving their friends, neighbors, co-workers, fellow believers as they do trying to make sure everyone believes exactly as they do, the Christian church might actually be a powerful entity.

But lets just keep on canabilizing ourselves. Keep up the "good" work.

Jon@TheWay said...

Was Peter "canibalizing" the 1st Century Church when he called out Simon the Sorcerer for his evil heart. No... and we are not bashing Christians... and we are not trying to "make sure they are on the straight and narrow" (the Holy Spirit will do that for true converts). We are simply warning the Body of Christ of the wolves and the roaring lion.

Todd Bentley's works, words, and fruit have been judged biblically, and they fail the test of a true prophet and a true teacher of God's Word.

You said: "If Christians spent as much time TRULY loving their friends, neighbors, co-workers, fellow believers as they do trying to make sure everyone believes exactly as they do, the Christian church might actually be a powerful entity."

I agree. The so-called Christian church is doing a terrible job of loving the world in that very few of us are actively sharing our faith (2 out of every 100) and we are, as a group, failing to warn the world to beware of the false "ministries" like Todd Bentley's that fall outside of the Word of God. Instead we ignore the Bible and chase after signs and wonders.

Gary Schilling said...

2Tim 4:2-4 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

I believe Todd Bentley's revival illustrates beyond any reasonable doubt that the so-called church and many who claim Christ will not endure sound doctrine and have turned their itching ears away from the truth in favor of fables and the latest new thing. Solomon said there is no new thing under the sun, so I guess the real question is: do you believe what scripture plainly says?

I urge you all to pray earnestly for discernment and ask yourself -- what is true revival? A revival is an awakening to the truth. Christ crucified is the truth; not BAM-BAM, or Todd's angels, or shouting fire, or gyrating bodies, or false visions and false healings. These are lying signs and wonders of antichrist folks! God's law is written on our hearts and reveals our sinful nature. A true revival is illustrated by a humble, solemn repentance before a Holy God. We come to a humble repentance by hearing the gospel -- Christ crucified -- and being convicted in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. Until you understand what a hopeless sinner you are, how can you possibly repent and be saved? You will not find a circus show atmosphere like Todd Bentley's at a true revival.

We are called to reprove and rebuke those who do not follow sound doctrine for the edification of the body of Christ. Would you send your sheep into a den of wolves with no protection? This is not about private interpretation or personal beliefs or Christians bashing Christians; it's about scriptural truth and salvation vs. lies and heresy. Is Todd Bentley building up the body for Christ, or seeking followers for himself? If you listen closely to what this man says, I think the answer to that question is obvious. Go to his web site and see what he is really about. He wants your partnership and your money folks... that's the bottom line.

So, what should you do? Scripture says it best:

2 Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you."

May God's will be the path for your lives.

Warmly,
Gary Schilling

KDS@TheWay said...

"Rev 3:14-19 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:
“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.
So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—
I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent."

Now that makes Him vomit!

There are those that say because you say something is unbiblical that you are like the Pharisees. But the bible tells us to boldly preach the Truth.

Eph 6:14-20 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—
and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel,
for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

We should remember that most(not all) the Pharisees were those that did not believe Jesus was the promised Messiah.

They had men follow man-made rules, instead of God's.

They boasted of their outward righteousness, all the while inwardly they were unclean.
Matthew 23:27-28

Let us never boast in ourselves but only in the cross of Christ, and in Him alone for our salvation.

Yet in boldness proclaiming your
Truth

I am also concerned with the Pharisees, but do I care enough to show them the true Messiah?

I should!

In Christ
KDS

Anonymous said...

In September 2007 I went to a Todd Bentley meeting. Seemed like everyone was having a good time. The worship was really good, but when I checked out the products for sale it was all this 3rd heaven stuff. I didn't buy it, not literally or spiritually. I am from a pentecostal background and in the 90s went to a Vineyard church when the Toronto blessing was happening. The church I go to now is also charismatic and many people from my church go to Todd's meetings and went to the Toronto blessing meetings in the 90s.

Anyway, I got this email a couple weeks ago about Todd praying for the Father to release financial angels so Todd could get more money, and the email mentioned an angel named Emma who brought on the revival. Anyway, as soon as I heard about Todd's angels, the Lord brought to mind something that happened in the mid 90s during the Toronto blessing.

During that time my sons were seeing angels all the time. My brother in law who was a conservative youth pastor of a baptist church said he had studied up on angels, and quoted IJohn4 which says test the spirits whether they be of God and every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God. It also says that if a spirit doesn't confess Jesus is come in the flesh, it isn't of God, and is the spirit of anti-christ. Read it and check it out. That is why God gave us the Word, so we can test things and not be battered about by every false wind of doctrine that is blowing around!!! (Or every doctrine of demons)

Since angels are spirits, my brother in law encouraged us to test them. He said to say this "In Jesus' name I command you to tell me, did Jesus come in the flesh?" My brother in law said the angels love to tell the story and if it is a real angel it will tell you the story of how Jesus came in the flesh, died for our sins, rose again 3 days later, and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

So the next time, we saw an angel, we commanded it in Jesus name, and guess what? It told us the story just like my brother in law said. So after that everytime we saw an angel, we would command it in Jesus name to tell us if Jesus came in the flesh.

Well, one day there was an angel in my daughter's bedroom, so we commanded it in Jesus name. It suddenly shrunk and morphed into a little green demon!!!! I am serious. This was a major counterfeit angel. We were shocked.

After that I started noticing new books in the secular bookstores with titles about communicating with your angel. I was grieved in my spirit because I knew that non-christians were going to be deceived in these times by demons disguised as angels. Note: the counterfeit look identical to the real angels, only the demons are a little less bright, but to the undiscerning eye who has never seen an angel before, you will probably not notice. That is why it is so important to test the spirits whether they be of God!!!

Anyway, because of this experience we had with the little green counterfeit angel, when I read about Todd and his angels, I just had a hunch that Todd has been deceived by counterfeit angels. Jesus said that before He comes (Matthew 24:11&24) many false prophets will rise up and deceive many and they will show great signs and wonders to deceive if possible even the elect. The entire chapter is well worth reading.

I think Todd is a false prophet. He is doing miracles I know because my friends' daughter attended a meetng where a tumour fell off of a woman. But miracles don't prove you are a true prophet because false prophets, the Bible says will do signs and wonders. Jesus said beware of false prophets who will come in sheep's clothing. In other words, they are gonna look like regular sheep. But one thing I am noticing is they are fleecing the sheep!!! Look at the huge amounts of money they take from the sheep!

In Matthew 7 Jesus said you will know them by their fruits...but we are afraid to judge fruit. We recently had prophet preaching at our church and he said "We are so afraid to be judgemental that we have lost it in discernment". How true!!! There is fruit in Todd's life that will tell you if he is a false prophet...

Jesus said in Matthew 7 "Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord,have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? " And then I will declare to them "I never knew you; depart from Me you who practice lawlessness!" Notice Jesus says they are practicing lawlessness, in other words not obeying the Bible which gives us guidelines with which to judge all this extra-biblical stuff.

Jesus warned us there would be false prophets and false signs and wonders. Our Heavenly Father has not left us without the equipment we need to discern what is HIM and what isn't. He has given us His Word and His Holy Spirit to discern...use what ABBA has given you!!! Don't be deceived.

Ivy, clinging to the Vine

Freedom2followJesusChrist said...

I just want to say that what Bentley said is nothing more than pure MANIPULATION! The demons using him are trying to separate believers from the Spirit of God in discerning what is influencing Bentley and the error he teaches. He first mentions that God said that believers must believe THE ANGEL. Then in the same breath changes it from off "people believing the angel" and uses the words "supernatural"...That the church doesn't believe in the supernatural. LOL! What a lie! All we have seen over the past 20 yrs is a mixture of "supernatural" stuff. I don't know very many people who have been in the charismatic churches who haven't seen some signs and wonders and some very STRANGE fleshly supernatural stuff in the mix over the years.. But when you mix it all together for people all it becomes is leaven and it confuses people from the differences of the real and the false. Plus we haven't heard much REAL GOSPEL preaching in the church for YEARS! So you put a lot of watered down preaching mix up real signs and wonders with the lying signs and wonders then you get a big mess. This stuff just provokes fleshly desires for the "supernatural" instead of a desire to be conformed to the image of Christ (holiness). And most of these lying signs and wonders come upon men who have NO godly character AT ALL. Just pretending to be a disciple of Christ. How is it possible for true signs and wonders back up false teaching and preaching? The Holy Spirit doesn't support false teaching or liars. He supports Christ who is the word of God. He supports the preaching of Christ and Him crucified. Just like the apostle Paul said 1Cor. 2:2 For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. This is what true signs and wonders confirm. The REALITY of JESUS CHRIST and HIS GOSPEL! Todd we DON'T NEED to believe THE ANGEL! We NEED to BELIEVE the WORD OF GOD! That is what I have found lacking in the church. Believing the word of God. Not many actually KNOW the word of God and the Spirit of God's interpretations of that word. Just the interpretations of men who are greedy and have eyes full of harlotry. God have mercy! Come quikcly Lord Jesus Come! And God bless you all and grace be multiplied to you who stand for the truth and know Him who died for our sins who was raised from death to life for us all! Hallelujah! Continue to contend for the faith Jude 1:3!!!!

Anonymous said...

A hearty "Amen!" to what Freedom2followjesuschrist said....we need to know and believe the Word of God more. I was reading in John 6 the other day all about Jesus being the Bread from heaven, and about His Words being spirit and life. If we are hungry for more of Jesus and His Spirit, we need to "eat" more heavenly Bread by getting into His Word.....not chasing after the latest revival fad. Besides, only His Word will endure the test of time.

Anonymous said...

I am not a Todd Bentley fan - however, after listening to this tape I must disagree. Todd does NOT say that it is not about Jesus.
What he says is that God told him that the church does not believe in the supernatural. THAT is what he said. If you are going to post stuff like this, at least get it right. AND remember, I am NOT endorsing Todd - I just don't like reporting that does not hold up on closer examination.

OH, and by the way? The supernatural does exist. Like it or not.

Jon@TheWay said...

You said... "What he says is that God told him that the church does not believe in the supernatural. THAT is what he said."

NO... what he said WAS that God told him to lay aside his only begotten Son, Jesus for awhile to bring the "angel" into Jesus' limelight.

So because we supposedly don't believe in the "angel" of Todd, or in the "supernatural", God himself told Todd Bentley 'Lay Jesus aside! Don't preach Jesus right now... preach about the angel and the supernatural because that's what the church needs.'

Do you not see the blasphemous heresy in that?

Anonymous said...

He said in one the meetings that 'The Angel' was Jesus. He said that 'since its Jesus that does the healings anyway' and that the Angel of the Lord in the OT is really Jesus, 'The Angel' therefore is Jesus.
?????????
Confused? Apparently he is.

Jon@TheWay said...

In this particular message the "angel" in called by name... he is called "Winds of Change"... it is the same "angel" that has visited heretic and anti-trinitarian William Branham and false prophet Bob Jones, two of Todd Bentley's spiritual heros.

But Todd HAS elsewhere said that he has visited, talked about visiting, seen, or been visited by the Angel of the Lord/Jesus, the apostle Paul, the "great cloud of witnesses" and various "angels" named "Emma", "Promise" "Finance" and others.

He constanly has "third heaven" experiences and claims to regularly visit the heavenly/spiritual realms.

Anonymous said...

This is in response to what Ivy posted regarding the testing of spirits in 1 John 4. Please read this good teaching on the subject: http://www.apostasywatch.com/teaching/page10.html

God bless.

Richard said...

Thanks again to this blogger for taking the time to edit and post these audio clips. They are so revealing.

In all the books and pages of the entire bible we are only told the names of three angels (Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer.) The only angel that mentioned his name to man was the angel Gabriel. He came to Daniel to reveal the coming Messiah. Interestingly, when Jesus was about to be born, it was Gabriel who came to Mary and Zechariah. God had a purpose in giving the name. He was saying that this same Gabriel who by God declared the revelations of the coming of Christ, was now announcing that the time of fulfillment was at hand. So the connection was prophetically significant...the prophecy (at least in regards to Christ's first coming) was coming to pass.

Consider all the times angels are seen in scriptures. Peter was awoken by one in his cell, yet the angel never told him his name. Isaiah saw the seraphim but never was told their names. Ezekiel saw cherubim and more, but in all he saw the Lord never said "this is so-and-so." Paul in all his heavenly revelations never mentioned a single name of an angel. When the apostle John saw the vision of heaven in the book of Revelation - he went to worship the angel who showed it to him and the angel said "worship God" (Rev 22:9). Again, we weren't even told what the name of the angel was...why? because it wasn't important and the Lord knew that in our mortal flesh there would be too much of a tendency to get our focus off of Him. If there's any doubt of this, just consider Joseph Smith and the Mormon Church. The Mormons base their beliefs on Joseph who said an angel named Moroni visited him...even gave him the "prophetic writings" they call the book of Mormon. We all know that this "angel" was no angel of God. But Joseph Smith said he saw it...even got it's name.

But in Todd's teaching there are "angels" called Emma, Winds of Change, Prosperity, etc. who bring prophecy, change and money. Yet the Bible speaks of the Holy Spirit empowering and giving spiritual gifts to believers. If God were to point away from Jesus, wouldn't He point to the Holy Spirit over "the Angel?" And yet He doesn't even do that! Because the moment you get focused on the Holy Spirit - He points you back to Jesus! As Jesus said, "When He is come (the Holy Spirit), He will testify of me."

Does Emma point us to Jesus!? I have read an account on the net where a man was asking the Lord about these things. He had a dream and in it the Lord told him: "Emma is not my angel."

What Todd is declaring is a "new" teaching. It is to believe in "the Angel." As he said in the audio clip - "do you want something new?" But isn't Jesus "new every morning?" Why doesn't the Bible tell us that we need to believe in "the Angel?" Why with all the scriptures, isn't there a single verse that says "thou shalt be aware of your angels?" I mean, there is not even one verse. So are we to accept one's teaching that sounds spiritual but is going outside scripture? Paul said:

"Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. He has lost connection wth the Head, from which the whole body...grows as God causes it to grow. Colossians 2:18-19

Now one may say that Todd isn't saying to worship the angels. He does teach to honor them (I have seen his article on it), which is one step away from worshipping. Do we not honor God when we worship him? Apparently one night at the revival he told someone to stand in a place on the platform where the healing angel was. And that's of God? I saw a night where he said "Why can't we ask God to send the angels from his highest glory to the meeting!" Poor unspiritual us, who never think of such a thing..Gee, and I have been just asking for God's presence all these years!? Nevertheless "a little leaven leavens the whole lump," as Paul says. And the temptation of the flesh is great because it sounds so spiritual to be seeing all these beings and knowing their names. It minimizes spiritual character and promotes visions to show our maturity in Christ. Visions are great, but not if they're promoting error...and especially not if they're of angels of darkness disguised as angels of light.

Sincerely,

Richard

haakon hovda, norway said...

Ef 4.14 tells us to stop acting like children beeing tricked to believe in false teachings that tosses us around from place to place.

Another letter Pauls warning us against listening to others, even angels, that will teach us a different gospel.

Now Todd is at best close to doing so, at worst he`s allready there. I`m sorry, but last time I read my Bible it told me that EVERYTHING is created by, for and to Jesus. He died for the church, not any angel. He took all my sin, he took my sickness, he forgave me. I will never change Jesus for ANYTHING, nor any angel or supernaturel manifestation.

If Todd is being misunderstood then he better learn his Bible and learn how to express himself properly...

Jon@TheWay said...

Richard said: "I have read an account on the net where a man was asking the Lord about these things. He had a dream and in it the Lord told him: "Emma is not my angel."

I say: Would the real Lord God please stand up?

Which is it? Should I believe a dream "Word from God" that denies Emma or a vision "Word from God" that glorifies Her?

I say NEITHER. Because neither one can be substantiated in the Bible.

The Bible itself gives enough instruction to show us that Emma (and Winds of Change) is a fraud.

So I don't need a dream. And I don't need a vision. I am complete, thoroughly furnished to dispute these things by the Word of God alone as Richard did with Colossians 2. Thanks, Richard.

And thanks for at least posting your name.

Scott said...

Just a reminder to Richard (1) and readers that many have entertained "angels unaware", and Jacob even fought with what he "believed" to be an "angel" only to be sadly mistaken and walk with a limp. I believe that "Angels" are simply messengers of God with a purpose and the moniker "Winds of Change" merely speak to purpose rather than "archangel familiarity" If one truly chooses to sit in the seat of judgement of fruit he must first examine himself first lest having that against a "Brother" he partakes unworthily. Satan "Lucifer" (named angel)is truly the only accuser of the bretheren.

May God recieve all the Glory for the great things HE has done.

Richard II

Caron said...

Check out this: http://www.adventuresinchristianity.com/?L=blogs.blog&article=3494

DaDroz said...

If somebody does NOT believe in Jesus, they aren't a part of the church. If somebody DOES believe in Jesus, they are a part of the church. When I say "believe in", I don't mean intellectual believe THAT there was a Jesus, etc... I mean that if somebody believes, has faith, trusts in Jesus Christ as the incarnate, crucified, then risen Lord and Savior of the faithful, they do not need to be taught again that He descended, lived, died, and rose again.

Paul said that we should not lay again the foundation of repentance unto good works, faith toward God, etc... because if somebody has already been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, etc... and fallen away (i.e. not yet ever truly repented), they never will be brought to repentance.

Why would you keep teaching repentance IN the church, unless unsaved people are streaming in to hear the message for the first time? We must believe in the authority Jesus Christ left behind, demonstrate the power of the Kingdom of Heaven with signs following instead of just talking about Jesus' power, attract lost but open people to the church, AND go OUT to evangelize.

This revival is clearly to renew the church, but the fruit is still people being saved. Question: what in the world would the motive of the devil be? A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. He steals, kills, and destroys. He performs signs and wonders by getting people to trust chance, themselves, or him, NOT EVER by lifting up the name of Jesus. And anybody who has actually watched the multi-faceted ministry (evangelism, prophesy, praise and worship, etc...) going on in Lakeland, they would hear Jesus' name CONSTANTLY being lifted up.

Missy said...

The Bible is clear when it says for us to look unto JESUS the author and finisher of our faith.
If we substitute Jesus with anything else as our central focus, deception has opportunity to come in.
Read the Word, believe the Word, follow the Word....simple :)

stephen said...

Todd Bentley is not of God. He is of his father the devil. How do I know this? No1. Why would the Holy Spirit tell someone to kick a woman in the face so that she would receive the baptism of the holy spirit. That is total an utter blasphemy

Matthew 24 v 24

Francis Wood said...

I was ready to argue with "theway" about these particular points from a legal aspect when the full realisation suddenly came to me.

At first glance it seems like "theway" has made implications out of a harmless comment from Todd Bentley and to be brutally frank it would not stand up in court because there is absolutely no way that Bentley is saying we must concentrate on "angels" to the exclusion of the Lord...

HOWEVER...

..if you meditate on Bentley's words it becomes apparent that HE (Todd Bentley) wants people to listen to HIM (Todd Bentley)in order to give credence to the "signs" and "wonders" taking place around him.

We believe in Jesus AND we believe in the supernatural when it happens and not necessarily when it is merely "suggested".

It is now CLEAR that Todd Bentley is promoting his own show.

If anyone does not understand any of the foregoing and wants me to expound I will gladly do so.

Mr. Francis Wood, London, England

Anonymous said...

Sounds like Todd likes the Scorpions...

The Scorpions - Send me an Angel


The wise man said just walk this way
To the dawn of the light
The wind will blow into your face
As the years pass you by
Hear this voice from deep inside
It's the call of your heart
Close your eyes and your will find
The passage out of the dark

Here I am
Will you send me an angel
Here I am
In the land of the morning star

The wise man said just find your place
In the eye of the storm
Seek the roses along the way
Just beware of the thorns

Here I am
Will you send me an angel
Here I am
In the land of the morning star

The wise man said just raise your hand
And reach out for the spell
Find the door to the promised land
Just believe in yourself
Hear this voice from deep inside
It's the call of your heart
Close your eyes and your will find
The way out of the dark

Here I am
Will you send me an angel
Here I am
In the land of the morning star
Here I am
Will you send me an angel
Here I am
In the land of the morning star