Wednesday, July 2, 2008

U-JUDGE-IT - Are these true miracles?

Today I am starting a new periodic feature. This will be an on-line discernment forum called "U-JUDGE-IT". Occasionally I will post a different video, audio, or text based question for you, the "Living in the Way" readers, to JUDGE. You will then give commentary either FOR or AGAINST what I post while backing your statements with Biblical reasoning.

The only rule for this installment is that you make a BIBLE BASED argument giving at least one scripture reference.

In this installment I submit to you an Extreme Prophetic Pathetic video featuring Todd Bentley's "spiritual mother" Patricia King, as well as his revival buddy Joshua Mills.
The video supposedly documents some heaven-sent gold and oil manifestations from supernatural superstar Joshua Mills' meetings.

So let's hear your take! U-JUDGE-IT... Is the following video a true documentation of miraculous works of God? Why or why not?

AN INCENTIVE TO SOLICIT COMMENTS: I have an original (antique) cloth-covered, hard-bound copy of "The Blood of Jesus" by William Reid, (Read it HERE) which was originally published in 1860. (Look at the pretty gold work on the front!)

I have no idea what it is worth, but it is in BEAUTIFUL condition and would be a wonderful addition to any Christian library... I will send it as a prize to the person who, in my opinion, gives the best biblical reasoning for or against this video. Just be sure to check "E-mail follow-up comments" when you comment since I will comment stating who gets the book. It will be your responsibility to e-mail me your mailing address if I choose your comment. DEADLINE FOR COMMENTS IS JULY 18, 2008

Here we go...

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8 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ok....this isn't biblical....but I couldn't help but notice...that the lady didn't even stop eating while the first scene was going on. It would appear that the Lord and His angels go around dropping this "diamond/sapphire" dust pretty regularly based on her response...or lack there of. After all, she did say this happened in her home and she collected the dust in a plastic bag. I bet if she collects enough it could pay for her entire ministry. If one of my friends spontaneously got dusted by God or one of His angels in front of me.....(Let's just pretend there is a biblical basis and reason for "dusting") I think my response would be more..."woe is me, I am ruined!.." less...."cool dust....man, this quesadilla is incredible.”

Jeremo

JNj. said...

Some thoughts about the video:

First of all, if I have seen and heard it right: She never (not once) mentioned the name of the Lord JESUS. That's no surprise to me, because she is interested in a lot of other things. She said, that the sapphires and diamonds, the oil etc. makes the unseen world moore real to her and that that is the reason, why she is worshipping God.
What a poor sort of "Christianity"! Or, to asked it this way: Is this biblical Christianity? No. A christian needs nothing of this stuff, to worship God or to be reminded, that the unseen world is real. A christian knows about the Lamb who was slain for the sins of the world - and he needs nothing else, to worship God (see Revelation 1, 5-6; 7:9). God has shown us His Love by giving His only begotten Son, not by giving us a diamond or golddust etc. (1. John 4:9)
Sapphire- or diamons, golddust etc. ist never once mentioned in the bible, when we read about the Glory of God. Nowhere in the Scriptures we are told, that things like this appreare, when the Glory of God comes to His people. So this is an extra-biblical phenomena and it is in no way an evidence that the things, wich happen in the ministry of Mr. Mills or Mrs. King, are from God.

And: If sapphires, diamons and golddust, oil etc. would be a true sign of heaven, than God would contradict Himself/His word. The word of God clearly teaches us, that we should set our mind on the heavenly things, not on earthly things, because earthly things will be gone in a second, they are parts of a creation wich will soon dissapear
(see: Col. 3:2 f.) The center of all heaven (and all heavenly things), is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, the slain lamb.

Last not least: Where in the Holy Scriptures do we read, that God needs people to "release" angels in to a house, like Mrs. King said about Mr. Mills?

This is no biblical christianity, this was an commercial to sell the DVDs of Mrs. Kings Ministry.

Greetings from Germany, and please forgive my poor writing in the english language. Hearing and reading is fine, but I'm not used to write ....

JNj.

Sara said...

My discernment says this is not from God. Although there are a few biblical references to “sapphires, diamonds and anointing oil”, there is nothing that fits the context of the things in this video. My first thought was that the Bible says several times how the end times, which we are in right now would be "as the days of Noah [were]" Mat 24:37 and Luke 17:26. There is nothing in the Bible about God sprinkling sapphire dust or oil coming from ones hands prior to the flood. To the contrary God set out to DESTROY everyone but Noah and his family. Currently the wickedness and apostasy is so great that it seems very apparent to me God is seeking true repentance from people. We are getting ready to be tested by tribulation, why would God be trying to impress or to convince someone He is real with gifts? He wants US to go to HIM! It is strange and ironic that the only people that seem to be receiving these "gifts" from God are this same group of connected people. Is it because they are so ready to buy into it? Satan is the master deceiver and his goal is to be worshipped as God. It looks like he is achieving his goal with this group.
In Christ, Sara

Cia W said...

I used to be a fan of Patricia King's -- but some of what she showed on her website bothered me, so I prayed for discernment. Of course all of the Bentley circus side-show, and her unqualified endorsement of it, makes it all the more apparent.

So, the word I finally got on the issue was 'sorcery'. And here's a good verse of scripture that fits nicely, I think:

Act 13:6-10 ESV
(6) When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they came upon a certain magician, a Jewish false prophet named Bar-Jesus.
(7) He was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence, who summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God.
(8) But Elymas the magician (for that is the meaning of his name) opposed them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith.
(9) But Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him
(10) and said, "You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord?

sbrogden said...

From Matthew 12, a warning against seeking after signs:

"Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

From Colossians 3, instructions for the Christian:

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."

The woman tells us there signs are gifts from God, as if His primary concern about our welfare is temporal.

She overlooks a key warning, from 2 Thessalonians 2: "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

Bottom line - we must be on guard, testing all things in light of the Word of God, casting down heresies and deceptive teachings that lead many astray.

throughtheveil said...

Hhhmmmm...

He received a curse and then passed it on to the others who wanted to have the curse on them as well.

(20) He took the [golden] calf which they had made and burned it with fire, and ground it to powder, and scattered it over the surface of the water and made the sons of Israel drink it. Exodus 32:20

The woman, in refrence to the "oil" referred to this passage:

(11) Then I said to him, "What are these two olive trees on the right of the lampstand and on its left?"
(12) And I answered the second time and said to him, "What are the two olive branches which are beside the two golden pipes, which empty the golden oil from themselves?"
(13) So he answered me, saying, "Do you not know what these are?" And I said, "No, my lord."
(14) Then he said, "These are the two anointed ones who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth." Zechariah 4:11-14

She may think one man can be two. There is also an inherant threat being made to those who disagree with these false prophets -- John wrote about the same phenomenon in Revelation 11:4 which speaks of the two witnesses. In verse five, John says about them...

(5) And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. Revelation 11:5

Lastly,if this was of God then they would not have hesitated to give the glory to God and Jesus Christ. If it was a miracle of God they would have extolled the wonderous name of Jesus. They did not.

(1) Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
(2) By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
(3) and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. 1 John 4:1-3

Thank you.

In His Word,
Scott

Anonymous said...

Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions about the video. The simple existence of this type of stuff only indicates that the church is neither hot nor cold but lukewarm.

It is truth that anything good from God that exists, satan will attempt to counterfeit it. That is why the Holy Ghost, the gifts of the, and the person of are tremendously and strategically miss represented by satan. How it applies to what is happening today is because the body does not have a correct understanding of what "the anointing" is so that is why it is so easy to trick a body of believers. The anointed or the anointing is the Holy Spirit and we do not have to wait for it to fall like the glory fell in the old testament. The Holy Spirit lives in us, and this is the anointing. Anointed is mentioned 12 times in the NT, and only 8 of those times it has to do with the when mary anointed Jesus feet, or Jesus anointed someone eyes etc..., the other 4 times, it is listed as 5548 in the strongs and means = enduing Christians with the gifts of the Holy Spirit..



Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor;

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power:

2Cr 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God

Hbr 1:9 ... therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.



Anointing is also mentioned 2 time in James in NT in james about putting oil on someones head and:

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

All of the verses above demonstrate that the Holy Ghost is the "anointing". So if that is true all the folks that are being taught that the anointing is anything else is being sadly deceived.

Other than that, Anointing is mentioned 84 times and Anointed is mentioned around 30 times in the OT.

In the OT everything was external, all the blessings of God were external, all the ritual, all the religion, even the prosperity, and even the miracles, were all a witness that they served God.

Since satans main goal is to acquire worship, if he can misrepresent the Gifts of God so that the body does not even know the the NT anointing is the Holy Spirit. then his counterfeit works and he will obtain the false worship he was trying to acquire since the beginning.

Jon@TheWay said...

Okay... These were all good. And all applied nicely with differnt points, however I liked jnj most of all for adding the statement that:

"A christian needs nothing of this stuff, to worship God or to be reminded, that the unseen world is real. A christian knows about the Lamb who was slain for the sins of the world - and he needs nothing else, to worship God (see Revelation 1, 5-6; 7:9). God has shown us His Love by giving His only begotten Son, not by giving us a diamond or golddust etc. (1. John 4:9)"

and...

"The center of all heaven (and all heavenly things), is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, the slain lamb."

So the winner of the book is jnj!

Please contact me with your mailing info and I'll send it right out!

Jon