It's finally here... EPISODE 1 of "Living in The Way", our new teaching podcast!
In this commercial-free, 45 minute episode of Living in The Way Pastor Jon Sharp and Pastor Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries discuss the Emerging Church. Our goal in this show is to give some of the basics of what the "Emerging Church" is, who is involved, and why you should steer clear of this disorganized system, their meeting groups, and their leaders/teachers, who will lead you away from Jesus Christ and toward a religion that can't provide spiritual freedom because they refuse to teach the Truth of God's Word.
After you've listened, please leave us a comment to let us know what you liked or disliked about the show. Also, feel free to give us some constructive suggestions and criticisms so we can improve for the next episode.
Enjoy the show!
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Monday, September 1, 2008
AUDIO: LiTW Podcast - The Emerging Church
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6 comments:
Excellent Podcast. It's the type of information that needs to be spread far and wide because too many Christians are totally unaware of satan and his strategies being pushed as "Christian" in the churches today. Pastor Ken is a very knowledgeable source because of his background and his in-depth study of these things. Thanks! Looking forward to future podcasts.
Just finished listening to the show, and I must say that this was an extremely edifying first episode. Very professional (intro and outro music especially) and sound Biblical discussion between yourself and Pastor Ken Silva. The topic of the emergent church is one that I believe many are still unaware, and with preachers like Mark Driscoll the lines are being blurred.
I will be linking to this episode from my blog at Cal.vini.st when I publish our next Five Points of Interest.
I didn't see a link, but is the show going to be Podcast so it can be received automatically through iTunes?
Pastor Sharp,
I enjoyed your interview with Pastor Ken Silva and look forward to more shows on this topic.You did a good job.
Pastor Silva mentioned the names of those who were on the ground floor of organizing the emerging church movement. One of the names was Mark Driscoll, pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle. However, because Mark pulled out due to disagreement with the more liberal stream of the emergent church, we tend to focus on the more obvious,and the impression is given that Mark Driscoll's ministry is sound, which it is not. As a result, Mark is making inroads into the conservative evangelical church when in reality he is promoting the same spiritual disciplines ie contemplative as the liberal emergents. In fact, because he has tried to distance himself from the liberals, he is embraced and validated by many Christian leaders including John Piper. As a result, the younger evangelical christians are looking to Mark for leadership.
For the sake of time, I am copying you some of my research notes I sent this week to another blog. Like I say in my notes, I live in Mark Driscoll's backyard and I have seen up close the negative effects of his ministry. Therefore, if we are going to warn the body of Christ about the dangers of the emerging church, we cannot ignore the teachings and influence of Mark Driscoll.
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Based on all of the mixed and confusing messages and comments made by Mark Driscoll, and also his associations, and promotion of men and ministries which promote ideas and theology in contrast with biblical Christianity, I concur with John MacArthur's analysis: "I have great concern about (Mark Driscoll)."
How can we overlook the fact that he distorts and twists Scripture as if it was material for a stand-up comedian? How can we ignore or support a ministry that paints a picture of Jesus that turns his character into a joke to feed a so-called edgy audience?
For example, according to Mark Driscoll, Jesus was not only "a dude," who by the time he was thirty years of age was "a classic underachiever with no wife, kids, stable career, or even much of a home," but he also says, "...God came to earth and he kicks things off as a bartender....."
Can you imagine the saints of old talking like this about the King of Kings?
Mark also pokes fun saying that ".....everytime they (the religious leaders) see Jesus, it agitates them that he is always surrounded by a crowd telling knock-knock jokes to miscreants who love his sense of humor because his perfection had to have included comedic timing." Mark's picture of Jesus depicts Him returning as a "tattooed" King! Think about that description. ...the spotless lamb with a worldly tattoo?
Mark even carelessly refers to his own relationship with Christ by crudely stating he learned "to trust the Scriptures and to love Jesus without feeling like we had a thinly veiled homosexual relationship." Once again, I ask,... can you imagine such cheap talk coming out of the mouth of a follower of Jesus Christ?
Luke 6:45 comes to mind: "...out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks."
Most of you have probably already read his version of Jesus' family in Vintage Jesus. Driscoll writes, " Jesus' mom was a poor, unwed teenage girl who was often mocked for claiming she conceived by the Holy Spirit. Most people thought she concocted the crazy story to cover the fact she was knocking boots with some guy in the back seat of a car at the prom." Concocted the crazy story?...Knocking boots with some guy in the back seat of a car?
Mark's figments of his imagination also included the mocking of serious Old Testament stories stating that all good humor begins in the book of Genesis. In fact, he describes the Old Testament as "a redneck hillbilly comedy" suggesting much of it sounds like it took place in a
white trailer park," which explains the humor he finds in the story of Noah. He laughs about it and says, "Noah, who nevertheless ends up having a bad day, gets drunk, and passes out naked in his tent like some redneck on vacation." In the story of Adam and Eve, Mark plants a suggestive, sensual idea about Eve that is over the top for a man in the pulpit. He says, "...God creates a perfect woman who is beautiful, sinless and naked, - the same kind of woman every guy ever since has been looking for." What makes Mark think that is what every guy is looking for?
Mark undermines the seriousness of the messages of Jeremiah by describing him as someone "who cries like a newly crowned beauty queen all the time." Mark claims one of the stories in Judge sounds like a Monty Python story and he even finds humor in Ezekiel 4 when, according to Mark, "God says, go to the bathroom, and stack up the feces, light the poop on fire, and cook over it." As a result, once again, he undermines and distorts the seriousness of the message and the integrity of God's word.
I wont take the time to go into his version of Galatians 5 describing "the circumcision checker," which he also calls the "cut off your pickle joke."
Even a writer for Christianity Today noted, "That's what you get from a pastor who learned how to preach by watching comedian Chris Rock."
Yes, on the one hand, Mark can deliver a sound sermon, yet in the other hand, he attacks and undermines Scripture and presents a picture of our Savior that is not found in the Word of God. I submit there is something wrong with this picture. A.W. Tozer warned," We should and must learn that we cannot handle holy things carelessly without suffering serious consequences."
Mark Driscoll also send mixed messages regarding the emerging church. On the one hand he distances himself from the controversy surrounding emergent leaders such as Brain McLaren, yet he wholeheartedly promotes The Leadership Network who in essence helped organize the emerging church and promotes the teachings of emergent leader Brian McLaren. Furthermore, in reality Mark shares a similar viewpoint as the emergents regarding contemplative spirituality, stating "I am big on the spiritual contemplatives: prayer, silence, solitude, fasting, meditation and study." In addition, under his "Acts 29" reading list was a selection of what is referred to as "worthy literature." The list included books by Richard Foster, Dallas Willard and a book called The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius. Thomas Merton is also on his recommended list. According to the research complied by Deborah Dombrowski at LighthouseTrailsResearch.com, " for someone to say they don't promote the emerging church but then promote contemplative is faulty thinking because the latter is so much worse- it is contemplative that makes the emerging church so heretical."
To top it off, Mark is all over the board in his other associations. I reiterate, on the one hand, he will hang out with John Piper, but he also seems to have no problem speaking at Rick Warren's SaddleBack Church or preaching at Robert Schueller's Crystal Cathedral. In Driscoll's book Confessions of a Reformission Rev, he positively claims "the changes brought about by Warren are revolutionary and very important....God has used Warren's insights to bring untold numbers of people to Jesus and Warren has become one of the most important Christians in our generation." In referring to Rick Warren, he also says, " ...his work is the most effective church growth strategy for the kind of people who are best reached by the ....evangelical church." Perhaps there are some of you reading this who would disagree.
As you can clearly see, I have many questions regarding Mark Driscoll. Actually, I feel sorry for him because instead of us either directly or indirectly validating his ministry, he needs to be encouraged to take a time out.... I was also puzzled and heartsick to read his story about taking his young son with him to a barbershop in Seattle that "provides the finest selection of waiting -area pornography in our city." What an interesting way to describe the filth of pornography and I am stunned that he would actually risk exposing his son to such a filthy place. It also seemed odd for a pastor to detail his experience in a gay bar talking about guys hitting on him. In another book he tells about going in for a massage where he was also hit on by the woman rubbing his back. He says, "The beautiful woman performing the message was hot ---like hell. I was nearly asleep during the massage, until the moment she kindly asked me if I wanted any sexual favors and began to list her impressive skills." I say, SPARE US THE DETAILS!
Are we going to also ignore his revelation on drinking alcohol in the church, or his comment stating he was convicted of his "sin of abstinence from alcohol" also saying ,"I personally long for the return to the glory days of Christian pubs where God's men gather to drink beer and talk theology. If anyone should take me up on this suggestion, I would offer the following as possible brand names for your brews: Lord's Lager, Holy Hefeweizen, Pastor's Porter, Alleluia Ale, Saintly Stout, and Lucifer's Light." The negative consequences of this kind of thinking should be obvious.
There is something wrong with this whole picture, and if the church cannot see it, we are further down the downgrade than we think. However, what is just as disturbing is to hear evangelical leaders giving Mark Driscoll a platform, which will serve to bring even more spiritual confusion into the church. What is wrong us?
I live close to Seattle. My own son attended this church one Sunday with a friend. On that particular Sunday, Mark was givng his version with graphic details of the crucifixion of Christ. In mixed company, I will not repeat what he said, but my son was embarassed and would have walked out except for the fact that he knew he needed to share his concerns with his friend. Once again, I say, there is something wrong with this picture.
I reiterate, Mark Driscoll should not be left out of any discussion about the emerging church.
All of this saddens me deeply.
Cathy Mickels,
co-author, Spiritual Junk Food: The Dumbing Down of Christian Youth
You really should get a RSS feed for this, because it is simply excellent! On a technical level, it was absolutely brilliant (I concur with Mr. Bingham that the opening and closing music was just brilliant), and more importantly spiritually speaking, the content was just fantastic.
I would take issue with Cathy's belief that Mark Driscoll's ministry is not sound. Yes, his methodology could so with some MAJOR clean-up, but if one would simply look back at him when he first emerged (no pun intended) and look at his current material now, it is painfully obvious that much maturation had taken place.
Doctrinally he is incredibly solid (one need only download his series, Doctrine, from the website), in terms of a pastoral heart, he really has one, and though he is quite rough around the edges, so is the generation around us. Then again, I'm 17 so maybe I am speaking on the "wrong side" of the tracks, so to speak, but I cannot really see anything wrong with Mars Hill Church and Mark Driscoll.
We now have the podcast set up for feed/subscriptions/itunes store...
Thanks for the feedback.
First, don't look to Mark Driscoll and Rob Bell as leaders of the emergent movement, please. If you want to know what emergents are [i]really[/i] about, check out Shane Claiborne and Tony Campolo.
Second, I disagree with Mark on quite a few things, but come on....God has a sense of humor, and I happen to find Lord's Lager a funny pun.
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