tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post5122400723474786118..comments2009-04-08T13:47:50.719-05:00Jon@TheWaynoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-59653410493914123962009-04-03T22:29:00.000-05:002009-04-03T22:29:00.000-05:00I recently came accross your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Ruth<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://besttoddler.com" REL="nofollow">http://besttoddler.com</A>Tessahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04492963774666154600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-61833896742374798052008-07-03T01:26:00.000-05:002008-07-03T01:26:00.000-05:00Gurt,<BR/><BR/>What you evidently don't know is that I have already come OUT of all of the sort of charismatic chaos that has little scriptural backing, just like Todd Bentley's revival has little scriptural backing. <BR/><BR/>You said: "See what God does for you...."<BR/><BR/>???<BR/><BR/>What more could I possibly want or need God to do for me? He has done ALL for me! And I deserved NONE of it. Do you think that God has something "extra" for a select few "special Christians"? <BR/><BR/>I don't know of anything of that sort in the Bible, so please give me some references if that is what "see what God does for you" means.<BR/><BR/>You said: "The fact that his letters are in red and and yours are in blue appears to me that you've already made up your mind about this and won't even listen to what the spirit is telling you..." <BR/><BR/>I say: "What...???? I don't even know what that means! I did it to make the conversation easier to read. So I'm not sure what you are reading into my use of colored text.... ?????<BR/><BR/>The Spirit "tells me" what He tells me by leading me as I follow the written revealed Word of God.<BR/><BR/>How does He speak to you? Then when you "hear", how do you prove that it was the Holy Spirit speaking and not your wicked heart or last nights pizza? <BR/><BR/>I have the Bible to measure all things by... (II Timothy 3:16-17)what do you use?... your feelings?... or your feelings PLUS the Bible? Either way, you will come up with error because your feelings lie. (Jeremiah 17:9)<BR/><BR/>If you use the Bible alone, please back up scripturally the process of asking the Lord "anything here that you want me to have, then I want it... anything you don't want me to have, then keep it from me."<BR/><BR/>You also wrote: "Other than that, just reading all that stuff that you've posted makes me wonder WHAT you've been studying, because your doctrine doesn't seem very sound either...sorry"<BR/><BR/>I say: If there is any unbiblical doctrine here PLEASE tell me where and how it is unscriptural... I certainly don't want to lead my readers astray from the Bible. Please tell me exactly which doctrine I have posted that is unsound so I can double check it with the Bible! I will await your reply.<BR/><BR/>You wrote: "Besides, isn't there anything for you to do than rant about all the things that don't agree with you? Got girlfriend/wife? Life? It's too short to waste on petty disagreements."<BR/><BR/>Petty disagreements? Do you actually believe that when a "minister" puts Jesus in second place behind an Angel or "the supernatural" that it is petty? <BR/><BR/>Do you believe that when a "minister" claims to gain secret knowledge of the spirit realm through visitations by dead saints that it is petty?<BR/><BR/>Do you believe that when a "minister" relys on the angelic hosts instead of Jesus Christ alone for mercy, healing, victory, revelation, etc. that it is petty?<BR/><BR/>I'm concerned that you are one of those deceived by this false "outpouring" seeking after cheap "signs & wonders" (Matthew 16:4) rather than relying on the Word of God alone for testing these things and relying on the Word, Jesus to be your "all in all".<BR/><BR/>I hope I'm wrong but your comment shows it fairly plainly.<BR/><BR/>Seek the Truth in your Bible rather than in your feelings and in the "excitement" of this false revival.<BR/><BR/>(Please get back to me on specifically where my doctrine is unsound... it is of the greatest importance to me.)<BR/><BR/>JonJon@TheWayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18271591704116800089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-65297283358091065362008-07-03T00:35:00.000-05:002008-07-03T00:35:00.000-05:00JON,<BR/>Strader's right,<BR/>If you have the Holy Spirit... simply pray... "Lord, if there is anything here that you want me to have, then I want it... anything you don't want me to have, then keep it from me..."<BR/>See what God does for you....<BR/>The fact that his letters are in red and and yours are in blue appears to me that you've already made up your mind about this and won't even listen to what the spirit is telling you...<BR/>Other than that, just reading all that stuff that you've posted makes me wonder WHAT you've been studying, because your doctrine doesn't seem very sound either...sorry<BR/>Besides, isn't there anything for you to do than rant about all the things that don't agree with you?<BR/>Got girlfriend/wife? Life? It's too short to waste on petty disagreements..<BR/>In Christ,<BR/>GurtGurtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-25246941442024763622008-06-24T02:32:00.000-05:002008-06-24T02:32:00.000-05:00Wow! Thank you for the post!<BR/><BR/>This is on Slice:<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>*Crosstalk Alert* Wednesday<BR/>I recently posted a message from Justin Peters (http://www.justinpeters.org) on the Word of Faith movement and its heretical teachings. This is the movement that has produced so many false teachers, including Todd Bentley and his Lakeland "revival". ...<BR/>Slice of Laodicea - http://www.sliceoflaodicea.comCaronhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09453239691669066071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-36644807199395310952008-06-22T02:38:00.000-05:002008-06-22T02:38:00.000-05:00<I>the ONLY raising from the dead that I am interested in is that of Jesus Christ after he died for my sins and the sins of the world. And he saved me from eternity in hell with his death and resurrection. THAT is spectacular enough</I><BR/><BR/>To be saved from the second death... that is FAR more spectacular than the raising of just the body!livingjourneyhttp://livingjourney.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-89931452407639140932008-06-20T16:18:00.000-05:002008-06-20T16:18:00.000-05:00To Anonymous above me: There have been no raisings from the dead.<BR/><BR/>And the ONLY raising from the dead that I am interested in is that of Jesus Christ after he died for my sins and the sins of the world. And he saved me from eternity in hell with his death and resurrection. THAT is spectacular enough that if Todd Bentley just talked about that every night - he'd have a packed house with people coming forward, repenting of sin and TRULY giving their life to Christ.<BR/><BR/>THAT would be spectacular.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-65131213705979179692008-06-03T22:46:00.000-05:002008-06-03T22:46:00.000-05:00I'm interested in the idea that doctrinal purity brings manifestations of the kingdom of heaven. This web site seems to be fairly certain of it's doctrinal purity, as it appears to be sitting in judgement of the doctrinal positions of other's. Can you share with us the healings, revival meetings, deliverances, even the raising of the dead that this doctrinal purity has brought about? And if there are none, why not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-16730638776372911272008-06-03T14:43:00.000-05:002008-06-03T14:43:00.000-05:00John Burton said:<BR/>---<BR/>Could God use a brand new believer to bring revival through? Sure. Would that believer know everything there is to know in scripture?<BR/>---<BR/><BR/>Actually, the bible says that a "novice" (or new convert) is not to be a leader. It is totally unacceptable for it to be so. I believe, at best, if Todd Bentley is actually saved, that he is a "novice". I have seen the fruit of this over and over, and he cannot be anything more than a babe in Christ, if he is "in Christ" at all. His doctrine is sooo flawed it is beyond imagining. As such, Paul says a leader must know the Word, and Todd clearly does not.<BR/><BR/>1 Timothy 3:6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.<BR/><BR/>A leader is supposed to be "seasoned", not some Joe off the street that just got saved. Does that mean that a new convert can't help in a revival, or the body of Christ? No, of course not. They may even have signs and wonders gifts, and various other ones too. But they are not to teach, or lead.Trenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06181286642721324142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-53623746375924635192008-06-02T18:27:00.000-05:002008-06-02T18:27:00.000-05:00Hi Jon:<BR/>I found an interesting article today from Time which concerns the Assembly of God leadership and Rick Warren's Global P.E.A.C.E.Plan you might want to look at, and how it all ties in with Todd Bentley as I see it. Here's the link:<BR/>http://filesfromtoni.blogspot.com/2008/06/rick-warren-goes-global.html#linksTMRFileshttp://filesfromtoni.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-80908243000960591042008-06-02T00:27:00.000-05:002008-06-02T00:27:00.000-05:00The problem I have with Mr. Strader's position about Todd Bentley and his mentors and their supposive "adjustments" is this...If there has been adjustments why have there not been any letters of repentance, denouncing these "adjustments' as heresy, and apologies to those they turned away from God through the false teachings and extra biblical experiences? This situation has created so much division among the members of the church body that someone needs to be accountable for that. There needs to be a public address of this and some apologies for bringing such division as a result of their unbiblical teachings and experiences past and present. Changing "Emma's" name from a teaching that used to have that name in it is not repentance, or renouncing, or apologizing to those they instructed in these very things. That is being deceitful in order to keep from being "controversial". That doesn't give us the assurance that Todd and those he hangs with they agree that this is not inline with scripture. It just shows us they are playing politics and bowing to please men not God. Seeing as how they have a very public ministry and have passed heretical teachings all over to multitudes of people past and present it is not godly character or showing us that Jesus is at work here by avoiding being transparent to the public concerning the things in question. There should be humility in public for all believers to witness. Not hiding and covering up. That is not character associated with Jesus Christ. ALSO Pastor Strader is NOT telling the truth that Todd Bentley pulled down Emma's name from his site during that period he was talking about. In fact it happened only recently within a few weeks or less. There are blogs out there that actually expose that. But there was no letter of repentance, renouncing it as heresy, or apology to the people they instructed in that heresy. Strader seems to be a very "smooth" talker in his emails. But he is being manipulative in his words. If there is good fruit it will be evident. There will be a change of heart, ie REPENTANCE...sadness over deceiving multitudes of people into damnable heresies...and that has not been publicized as of yet. Just said claims of "adjustements". If one is going to be public as a minister to a large audience then their lives and character should be transparent and public for the sake of the entire church. So this tells me there is no fear of God here at all. Just treating what is holy in a common manner. God have mercy on these men and all involved in this deception.Freedom2followJesusChristhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09556119351410364472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-26026163746064024572008-06-01T17:25:00.000-05:002008-06-01T17:25:00.000-05:00Pastor Strader has shown patience and graciousness in responding, but he doesn't have a clue!<BR/><BR/>From his last post you and he aren't even on the same page!<BR/>......................................................<BR/><BR/>"...If you don't "believe" then delete this... there is no answer that will calm your doubts..."<BR/><BR/>WHAT doubts??? Do you, Jon, have any doubts as to the nature of this "revival"? I would say that its essential nature is a certainty!<BR/>.....................................................<BR/><BR/>"If you have the Holy Spirit... simply pray... "Lord, if there is anything here that you want me to have, then I want it... anything you don't want me to have, then keep it from me..."<BR/><BR/>See what God does for you"<BR/><BR/>Anyone who has the HOLY Spirit will be painfully aware that most of the spirits operating in Lakeland are demonic.<BR/><BR/>I started to listen to a video clip someone sent me of Todd Bentley preaching. After just a few seconds I had to shut it off - it was so spiritually hideous!<BR/><BR/>So why should anyone who has the HOLY Spirit want to ask if there is "anything here that you want me to have", knowing that the answer is a definite NO?<BR/><BR/>.....................................................<BR/><BR/>"I believe that Todd and this Outpouring are from God... it's the Lord's doing... period.<BR/><BR/>It will NEVER be perfect... nor will the "doctrine" line up with everyone... let the Holy Spirit sort it out!!!" "<BR/><BR/>My concern is less the doctrine (though that is vitally important too) but the fact that the activity of unclean spirits is so evident and "in your face", yet apparently genuine men of God, such as Pastor Strader, seem totally blind to the fact. <BR/><BR/>When the Holy Spirit "sorts it out" there won't be much left!<BR/><BR/>Ezekiel 9 comes to mind<BR/><BR/>This whole thing is so terribly TRAGIC!<BR/><BR/>Indeed we must pray for those caught up in this terrible deception!<BR/><BR/>JPJeannettenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-724267563242845252008-06-01T10:12:00.000-05:002008-06-01T10:12:00.000-05:00That's right... and that's why I continue to say pray for those involved. How many of us were at one time caught up in deception, delusion, or even outright paganism. Jesus can break those bonds. Pastor Strader seems sincere... but if so, he is in bondage to an anti-christ message and understanding of a "move of God". Where is the Word, Pastor Strader? Where is the Gospel of Jesus Christ?Jon@TheWayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18271591704116800089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-22804721345730832092008-06-01T09:21:00.000-05:002008-06-01T09:21:00.000-05:00Hi Jon:<BR/><BR/>I am sorry to say that I believe Pastor Strader has been caught up in the strong delusion. I have seen enough videos from this 'revival' to know that it is not of the Holy Spirit, by word or deed. The Bible does not speak of any revival in the last days until the tribulation period, when the true latter rain revival will take place, known as Joel's and Hosea's revival, and multitudes of souls will be brought to Christ. Furthermore, Todd Bentley etal cannot "impart" any spiritual gifts as he claims, as it is the Spirit Himself who is the giver of the gifts to His servants. I Corinth. 12 clearly clairfies this. "NOW concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant vs. 1 Paul writes. And in vs. 8, Paul writes, For to one is given BY THE SPIRIT the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge BY THE SAME SPIRIT; To another faith BY THE SAME SPIRIT; to another the gifts of healing BY THE SAME SPIRIT. So you see, it is the Holy Spirit who gives all gifts to his servants. I believe Todd Bentley is "imparting" "something" but it certainly is not of the Holy Spirit. His ministry is completely out of harmony with the word of God and it is more likely demonic spirits being "imparted" to those he "Bams". <BR/><BR/>Matt: 24:24 is in effect here, and people need to read their Bibles.<BR/>ToniTMRFileshttp://filesfromtoni.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-69407470541204609982008-06-01T05:56:00.000-05:002008-06-01T05:56:00.000-05:00Jon,<BR/><BR/>You definitely exhibited the fruit of the Spirit, self-control, as you replied/challenged Stephen Strader with the Truth.<BR/><BR/>I continue to pray for the man to see the Truth, rather than seeing the outpouring HE has yearned for and has for so many years, as his congregation dwindled and they had to sell the old property/church, and re-start at Ignited with just a few core, old church, members.<BR/><BR/>Stephen comes from a church that was split right before the last "revival" (Rodney Howard Browne) because they were allowing an extra-Biblical teaching emphasis, non-A/G supported(doctrinally) teachers in the pulpit, and this split happened as their church constitution gave the Assemblies of God little say other than coming to them and asking them, as you have, to address these issues. BTW, I'm sure the A/G is speaking with Strader, as they did with his father, in the above account.<BR/><BR/>And it was only for that short time, and rarely after, that the church was filled. The church did okay for a couple of years afterwards, but continued to struggle financially, ultimately dwindling to the point where they couldn't afford to keep the lights/system on in the main auditorium for services, and moved into the children's church room, a theatre in the renovated Carpenters Home(retirement center closed years before First Assembly bought the properties)<BR/><BR/>History repeats, and some pastors never learn.<BR/><BR/>But even with that perspective, the facts about the heretical teachings of Todd, his little or no emphasis on Jesus in his meetings (just the "anointing" and signs and wonders), and the concerns by so many should keep Bible believing people away.<BR/><BR/>But alas, as so many live in the flesh, and claim the "spirit," they will flock hither and yon to get that next "new wine" by being "under the spout, where the glory comes out," wherever someone declares it to be, by "faith" without ever considering the consequences, seemingly so deceived and consumed by their own desires to come and get something from Todd/god.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again for taking the time to try to talk some common Biblical sense into Stephen Strader. It's been tried before.<BR/><BR/>Hesed<BR/>http://LakelandRevival.blogspot.comHesedhttp://lakelandrevival.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-57498966683028163812008-06-01T00:44:00.000-05:002008-06-01T00:44:00.000-05:00You said: <I>And, so many have differing views of the non-essentials of scripture... one group speaks in tongues, another might call those who speak in tongues to be demonized!</I><BR/><BR/>I say: Sir, Why have you built a "tongues" straw man? This is NOT about tongues and it is NOT "non-essentials"! This is about heresy, false teaching, false prophecy, blasphemy, and plain-old dirty unbiblical visions, and lying "signs" and "wonders".<BR/>(Although, frankly, I have seen NO impressive sign or wonder, but maybe I blinked at the wrong time. <BR/><BR/>You said: <I>We have to expect wild manifestations of God when his manifest presence increases in measure, when his activity ramps up.</I><BR/><BR/>I say: Hmmmmm. WILD and GOD in the same sentence. To which god are you referring?<BR/><BR/>And "when his activity ramps up"??? <BR/><BR/>What is this? Ghostbusters? What exactly does that mean and where is it in the Bible? What verse states that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will "ramp up" some wild "activity" at a revival meeting... or when will He "be" more or less than the all-encompassing "I-AM"? <BR/><BR/>You said: "The point really is this- even those in the faith for a long time should be given the above graces!<BR/><BR/>I say: In which epistle does Paul teach us to be graceful to false teachers? <BR/><BR/>In which Gospel does Jesus say "Give the ravenous false prophets a break... they are growing...give them time to sort through it all."??<BR/><BR/>You say: <I>It's Biblically normal to have encounters, to have angelic visitations, to prophesy, to have dreams and visions, to be overcome by his presence, for there to be healings, etc.</I><BR/><BR/>I say: that is a completely FALSE statement. It was absolutely the exception to the rule... We have 5000 years of history condensed to a 1000 page book with the relatively few "manifestations" even even more within those pages. And you think a visit from Gabriel was "normal"?<BR/><BR/>You said: <I>We should do the work of a Berean (which is so misunderstood these days).</I><BR/><BR/>I say: Wow! We agree! <BR/><BR/>You said: <I>Bereans were called more noble because they eagerly received the word of a fresh move of God! They couldn't wait to search scripture to see how it all worked together.</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>Act 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. <BR/><BR/>I say: Albert Barnes says it better than me...<BR/>"Whether those things were so - or Whether the doctrines stated by Paul and Silas were in accordance with the Scriptures. The Old Testament they received as the standard of truth, and whatever could be shown to be in accordance with that, they received."<BR/><BR/>Ummm. the "fresh move of God" the Bereans were "checking" was that Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah... not that the Holy Spirit was capping cavities with some holy dental work.<BR/><BR/>You said:<I>So, bottom line- don't freak out if you hear something a bit strange. It's not hard to discern the spirits. If Jesus is exalted, then rejoice! If not, prayerfully watch and ask for clarity.<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>Hebrews 13:8-9 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Do not be carried about with various and <B>strange</B> doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them. <BR/><BR/>Jim Jones "exalted Jesus" for a while... then the deceived were trapped... then they were dead.<BR/><BR/>"Wait and See" sends people to hell and you, sir, have been deceived as well. So I beg you, search the Scriptures and quit trying to sweet talk people into "pleasing men" by going easy on the heretics when Paul gave us pretty much the opposite instructions:<BR/><BR/>Galatians 1:6-10<BR/> <BR/>I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. <BR/><BR/>But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. <BR/><BR/>As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. <BR/><BR/>For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.Jon@TheWayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18271591704116800089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177469837373285045.post-51732034499285802882008-05-31T23:39:00.000-05:002008-05-31T23:39:00.000-05:00That was an interesting conversation, and I commend Pastor Strader for going the distance he did.<BR/><BR/>I so wish that those who are opposed to what's happening in Lakeland would truly exhibit real grace.<BR/><BR/>I've never seen such a quick rebuke by those who have never even met the people in question.<BR/><BR/>It's certainly important to be as theologically tuned as possible, but do people realize that many, many people are still growing in that? It's a process.<BR/><BR/>Could God use a brand new believer to bring revival through? Sure. Would that believer know everything there is to know in scripture? No. Would it be appropriate for him to have good, seasoned counsel? Yes. Could he make mistakes? Yes. Could he misinterpret experiences? Yes. Should we give him time to sort through it all, gain counsel and redirect? Yes.<BR/><BR/>The point really is this- even those in the faith for a long time should be given the above graces!<BR/><BR/>And, so many have differing views of the non-essentials of scripture... one group speaks in tongues, another might call those who speak in tongues to be demonized!<BR/><BR/>We have to expect wild manifestations of God when his manifest presence increases in measure, when his activity ramps up.<BR/><BR/>It's Biblically normal to have encounters, to have angelic visitations, to prophesy, to have dreams and visions, to be overcome by his presence, for there to be healings, etc.<BR/><BR/>Instead of having an initial reaction of scrutiny and suspicion, we should allow our faith and zeal to flourish!<BR/><BR/>We should do the work of a Berean (which is so misunderstood these days). Bereans were called more noble because they eagerly received the word of a fresh move of God! They couldn't wait to search scripture to see how it all worked together.<BR/><BR/>So, bottom line- don't freak out if you hear something a bit strange. It's not hard to discern the spirits. If Jesus is exalted, then rejoice! If not, prayerfully watch and ask for clarity.<BR/><BR/>(SITE LINK REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR)John Burtonnoreply@blogger.com